When to Hire a Private Investigator to Testify for Your Family Law Case

Join us for our live event as we sit down with Private Investigator, Jennifer Brissenden, to discuss when you should consider hiring a private investigator to gather evidence for your case, and what exactly they can testify to in a family law matter.

If you would like to speak with one of our attorneys, please call our office at (503) 227-0200, or visit our website at https://www.pacificcascadelegal.com.

To learn more about how Jennifer can help you, you can visit her website: https://brissenden-investigations.com/

Disclaimer: Nothing in this communication is intended to provide legal advice nor does it constitute a client-attorney relationship, therefore you should not interpret the contents as such.

Transcript

Intro:
Welcome to Modern Family Matters, a podcast devoted to exploring family law topics that matter most to you. Covering a wide range of legal, personal, and family law matters, with expert analysis from skilled attorneys and professional guests, we hope that our podcast provides answers, clarity, and guidance towards a better tomorrow for you and your family. Here's your host, Steve Altishin.

Steve Altishin  0:28  
Hi everyone, I'm Steve Altishin, Director of Client Partnerships here at Pacific Cascade Legal, and today we have Private Investigator, Jennifer Brissenden, to talk about when you should consider hiring a private investigator to gather evidence or testify in your family law case. Hey, Jennifer, how you doing today?

Good morning, Steve. I'm super good. I'm ready to ditch the sweater weather that we've had the last couple days. I'm glad the sun's peaking out. How are you doing?

I am completely ready. Shorts, short sleeve shirts, I'm ready for something. Yes. So Jennifer, before we start in, I know that you've been on a couple times, and a lot of people know you, but for the ones who don't, could you talk a little bit about yourself?

Jennifer Brissenden  1:19  
I love talking about myself. My name is Jennifer. I own Brissenden investigations. It's just me out here. My background is in mental health, forensic mental health and law enforcement, and I opened up my investigation business about a year and a half ago. I'm doing a lot of work on family law cases, as well as simple prosecution for TV stuff, sexual abuse, that type of thing.

Steve Altishin  1:47  
This is perfect. So I'm going to start really with the basic questions, because I think there's a little bit of confusion on this particular question, and that is, what is a private investigator?

Jennifer Brissenden  2:01  
I don't know, Steve. A private investigator is not trench coats that you see in the movies. We are not well. We should not be out there doing illegal stuff, I think. In a nutshell, a private investigator is a data collector. We gather information by a variety of sources to try and get the information that is needed to testify in a case or on a client's behalf. That's my really simple answer.

Steve Altishin  2:33  
Yeah. Can anyone just do it, or is it something that you're licensed to do and then have particular rules you need to follow?

Jennifer Brissenden  2:41  
Yes correct. There's so Oregon dpsst, which is the same authority that does like police training and stuff like that. You do have to be licensed and certified. There are education slash training hours that are required to do that, and then an exam and obviously upholding being insured and all those kinds of things. So no, not just anyone can legally do that job.

Steve Altishin  3:11  
So you talked a little bit about the kind of cases you are involved in, but let's kind of focus on, you know, what kinds of family law cases can private investigator give some help to?

Jennifer Brissenden  3:28  
I don't think there's a lot of areas that we can't provide help to. I will work on your basic divorce cases with no children, helping try and identify evidence and information related to cases involving asset division. I do a lot of asset searches for properties, vehicles, watercraft, aircraft, all those sorts of things. I see a lot of domestic violence cases come through, stalking cases come through, where there's concerns for the children that can also encompass, you know, let's say one of the parents has substantial mental health issues or a background of substance abuse that could potentially endanger a child and affect a parenting plan. That's something I can help, kind of put together that case as well. In regards to unfit parenting, I can also provide, I know sometimes, if it's a bad enough case, there are child attorneys appointed. That's information I can also provide to them.

Steve Altishin  4:31  
What kind of things do you do? You know, I think people are, are interested. I mean, do you you see, sort of the the private investigator talking with someone and whipping out a note card, I mean, but there's a fair amount of things that you can actually do beyond that.

Jennifer Brissenden  4:49  
Yeah, there's a ton of stuff I do. Spend a lot of time at the computer. A lot of my investigations is gathering data from technology, social media. I do a ton of witness interviews, and I think we can talk later, a little bit like, maybe once we get into the expert testimony, it's it's hard to take witness statements just because of hearsay rules. So that's something I do a lot of, calling neighbors, calling family members, calling employers, saying, hey, talk to me about what you know about this person. I do some surveillance. I had one recently. It was in a financial dispute and a divorce with essentially the the male spouse saying, I don't, I don't have this money. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm, you know, I'm strapped. I'm counting my pennies. At the end of the month, he was spending 1000s, 1000s a month at strip clubs, right alcohol and dancers. So in a situation like that, I would do surveillance, maybe at a club or a bar, and kind of try and figure out some of that lifestyle stuff. There's quite a variety. I also do a lot of data gathering for restraining orders, trying to kind of piece together that history and write a report up of that history that I can testify to.

Steve Altishin  6:07  
All this information I know it's incredibly valuable, in collecting it and kind of being able to produce it when you need to in a form that actually would help someone make a decision. And so let's talk a little bit about a few things, uh, specifically that I've always been kind of interested in knowing I think people are, is finding hidden assets. Can you, like, go find things that most people can't? 

Jennifer Brissenden  6:36  
Oh I'm so glad you asked about that. I can do nationwide property searches, aircraft, watercraft. Different states have different DMV rules. So if I have access to all Oregon DMV records, if they're outside of Oregon, it can get a little more complicated. But what I really want to talk about is there's a misconception, I think about financial records. I get a lot of calls from private clients as well as attorneys, saying, Hey, we know that this guy moved a bunch of money, or we knew he has brokerage accounts with a half million dollars, and then that he won't disclose. I need you to find those. The caveat is, there are some PIs who will get some financial information. However, it's not legal. It is absolutely illegal to obtain financial records without a party's consent. So for a multitude of reasons, I would not survive in prison. I am a super picky eater, for one, and I don't want to eat jail food, but, but I think one of the key pieces of being a PI gathering the evidence and then figuring out how to present that in a way that's admissible in court. I think the number one rule is don't obtain anything illegally, because if I do manage to hack into some bank records and get information a I'm going to look extraordinarily unprofessional, and my credibility is going to be challenged on the stand, but B it's not going to be admissible. It's not going to do any good. So trying to obtain information like that without following rules of evidence and without following the law is a complete disservice to my clients.

Steve Altishin  8:18  
If I asked you, you know, I don't want you to go in and get the information, but I just can you even locate, let's say, where a bank account is. You know, what bank they might have an account in, or a retirement account, or something like that.

Jennifer Brissenden  8:34  
Sometimes, which I know is not a very helpful answer, sometimes it really depends on, you know, a lot, if somebody's really clever, they've moved that money offshore. And I'm never, never going to be able to identify that. But like, There so many people, right? There's so many blogs and group things, stock twits these days, where people have accounts and they're talking, they're out there talking about what they have. So it takes some creativity, but sometimes that stuff can be located, if it's a collection I know oftentimes, right, there's a judgment Award, and the other party just doesn't pay, doesn't pay, doesn't pay. One of the things that I can do is work with people on getting writs of Garnishment or writs of execution, if we can identify real property, but I, under no circumstances, am willing to put my professionality on the line and say, yeah, he's got $300,000 at Chase in this account.

Steve Altishin  9:32  
If we're going to get to you as an expert witness in here pretty soon. But you also can help other expert witnesses. A lot of expert witnesses are asked to give opinions and valuations and things like that, but they need some of the stuff you give them. It seems like, I mean, it's hard for them to give an opinion if they don't know what what they have. Mm, hmm.

Jennifer Brissenden  9:59  
Hmm, I agree. And I can tell you that the easiest part of my job is gathering the info. Getting the info. The the most difficult part of my job is putting that into a way that works for people, that works for a judge or an attorney, to understand what I have and to kind of peace out what's the key information here? Because if we're talking about a 20 year marriage, there's so much info, and all of it probably feels relevant, but it's probably not at the same time. So yeah, gathering that evidence, and, you know, giving the example, if there's a child, Attorney being able to put that into a report, handing it over and say, Here you go. Here's the info you need to make your expert opinion.

Steve Altishin  10:43  
I'm assuming, am I wrong, that a lot of the people you interview are potential witnesses?

Jennifer Brissenden  10:48  
People will surprise you if you have a brief conversation with them and get really no idea what they're going to say on a stand. You also you want to have some kind of idea about how they present. Are they articulate? Are they believable? Is their story, you know, are their testimony unchanging? Because last thing you want is to pull a witness that you think is going to help you, and they end up harming your case. And it happens. It absolutely happens. 

Steve Altishin  11:15  
And if you've talked to them and you've written it down, they can come to you and say, hold it. This person's saying this. This is what they told me.

Jennifer Brissenden  11:24  
I'm not going to be able to stand and say out being sworn in as an expert witness. That's going to be hearsay. Every day of the week. They're going to say, Well, Joe Schmoe needs to come tell us himself. Yeah, fighting people is my favorite thing to do, see family violence. Warrant sweep takes place same day for every agency across the country. So I used to coordinate that my didn't want to be found. And I found them in some very Yeah, we have, I have access a lot of software information. If somebody up a mailbox and never else's name doesn't have a job, I can't guarantee I can find someone, but I have a pretty decent track record because I'm super stubborn.

Steve Altishin  12:14  
Well, you know, one of the big problems with a lot of divorce cases is that someone just vanishes and they can't be served. And you know those things you go through, but finding them is clearly the best you know thing you want to do, right?

Jennifer Brissenden  12:28  
DMV records are a great resource for that. Not all, not all, but most people, there are certain target areas where somebody knows who they are and where they are.

Steve Altishin  12:42  
Can you get into criminal records? 

Jennifer Brissenden  12:45  
Yep, I have full access national database. Now I'm not going to be able to pull has recently been added to my database, which I love, but I pull nationally any convictions criminally that have happened. If we want to know about has there been eight? Then it's a matter of what I'll typically do is narrow down, where have they lived, what police jurisdiction is that? And then a quick call over, hey, do you guys have any police reports on this person, or any orders you kind of have to go that long loop around route.

Steve Altishin  13:14  
Well and again, what's valuable and what's not? I mean, they got stopped for drinking. And you know, what does that mean? You can find out if that really means anything,

Jennifer Brissenden  13:27  
Right? I have one actually, recently, she's with with your guys's firm who is going through a thermo and we were chatting, and I casually said, oh, you know, in this DUI he got two years ago, and she, I didn't know, and couldn't be proved, and go round one or go round two. But now we have this to say, look, criminal records are great.

Steve Altishin  13:51  
The flip part of your job, you gather information and you can give it to people, and it maybe never goes to court, but it worked, helped. But there are times you really just have to testify, aren't there?

Jennifer Brissenden  14:01  
Yeah, absolutely. And I love it. I love, I love getting up there for some reason. I mean, first and foremost, yeah, the judge has to allow me in, whether that's as an just as an investigator, being able to talk about and discover and process, but first, the form testimony to go anywhere, it needs to be legally a professional and so it's not accessible, and I think, to the facts, asserting your own professional opinions and labeled an expert in that gets into really dangerous territory, and you present the stuff that you found.

Steve Altishin  14:03  
And I'm thinking that, you know, you get up and you say, you know, this person owns this 1994 for truck. And they, you know, they say, I don't own a truck. 

Jennifer Brissenden  15:00  
I would go, Hey, Judge, opposing counsel. Here's a certified copy of the DMV record on this date that says his vehicle's registered to him or her and PS, here's a photograph that I took of them last week driving this exact car here that I'm holding in my hands that's going to become difficult to dispute.

Steve Altishin  15:22  
Not just saying, is important. 

Jennifer Brissenden  15:24  
Yes, everything is worthless in court. I think without documentation, it's going to get thrown out if I can't prove what I'm testifying to, documentation, accurately documenting witness statements or having proof of those assets that I've talked about. We had a guy recently hiding a boat, kind of similar situation. No, I don't have it. Okay. Well, let's go to the marine board and, you know, get a copy that's a certified document, and let's find out where you more it, because there's also going to be a lease agreement. So that's that's key. You got to have it documented and documented. 

Steve Altishin  16:07  
So can you kind of go through, you know, as a expert witness, what you need to sort of show first? So I'm gonna let you say these things.

Jennifer Brissenden  16:43  
It's explaining, here's my training, here's my experience, here's my coursework. And then it's up to a judge whether or not to go ahead and say, Yeah, I believe you're an expert witness with that status, like you said, you get so much about DV just because it's it's what I've done for being able to take old threatening text messages or substance abuse issues, mental health history, we have the evidence that those things exist. But now I don't just get to say, hey, these things exist. I get to talk about, here's what I know about intimate partner violence. Here's what I know about the risk factors. Here's a and I'm giving you puts us higher so you get to draw out kind of the conclusion of what you find.

Steve Altishin  17:33  
Sort of the methodologies you use. You know, how I found it, and this is why I'm able to say this. 

Jennifer Brissenden  17:38  
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think digital technology makes it really, really difficult. And if you're going up against, I hate to call unreasonable opposing counsel, but it exists. Let's be real. Okay, you're telling me what investigative method you use, which sounds really complicated and and it is. And I used to see that in criminal law, even jail, phone calls are recorded. We would use their own voice, their own words, their own testimony.

Steve Altishin  18:09  
Your opinions that you give, the what you saw, what you found, a lot of times, people will give an opinion, just fine. They give an opinion, even if they're an expert, but it's not necessarily on what they're an expert at. So it sounds like you know, one of your big expertise is, is not just finding things. If I just were to walk into your office and say, you know, should I hire you? I mean, when you know, when should I finally kind of go, oh, maybe this person can help me.

Jennifer Brissenden  18:46  
You think there's info, but you're not sure how to obtain it. Call me. I know. I say, every time my consultations are free, I just say, call me and I'll take, I'm happy to give up 30 minutes of my time, sometimes 45 if it's complicated to say, Tell me about your grades. Tell me what you're struggling with, and then we'll kind of talk through. Here's what I think I could do. Here's what I think I couldn't.

Steve Altishin  19:11  
One of the things-- that first thing in divorce. Can you help those people like if they came to you and said, here's a list what my attorney said I need to find, and I don't even know where to start looking. I mean, can you help someone who walks in and says, How do I do this? Or can you do this? 

Jennifer Brissenden  19:26  
I'm going to be able to help them with some of it, maybe not all of it. But okay, if those finances have have not been in your control for the last 20 years and you have no idea, let's figure out how we can work backwards to get information. For instance, last week, I was like, Wait, who's paying property taxes? Oh, he was paying property taxes. Great, let's get those property tax records. 

Steve Altishin  19:49  
It is kind of a dumb question, but I've got a dumb question. You said that there's, you know, you can't just go in and get bank records. What if they give you consent? Can they do that?

Jennifer Brissenden  20:04  
Oh, yeah, if they're on the account, 100%. If someone's on a joint account, they absolutely have right to access that.

Steve Altishin  20:12  
And you can help them with that, you're not you're not violating anything?

Jennifer Brissenden  20:16  
Not at all. No, if you're listed on an account, it's fair game for us.

Steve Altishin  20:20  
We're almost done. What about things you said you don't do? Yu don't do illegal activities. And a couple that can sort of came to mind. I thought, if I'm down in, you know, are these illegal or not? Or, you know, trespassing, wire traffic, or impersonating somebody.

Jennifer Brissenden  20:36  
I cannot personally, law enforcement give me that, sir, tell me this trespassing is a huge one. I oftentimes people want surveillance, right? I want you to go up, for instance, and that trespassing, I'm not putting GPS people that has no ownership to I can take photos of anything that I can see from public. So I could stand on someone's sidewalk, and if they have their curtains open and are doing something indoors, that's fair game. But yeah, no trespassing, no no engaging in access to info. But we don't have, we don't get a bypass, a loss.

Steve Altishin  21:15  
Okay, it's good. It's that's really good for people to know, because they really should do it either. And if they're going to go out and try to gather evidence and they're doing it illegally, it's going to end up not big and miserable. And yep, I love that. Wow. We ran out of time. 30 minutes is zoom. Jennifer, thank you so much for being here today to talk about, you know, this really kind of important, but not well understood. Uh, what goes Do you want to hire private guest Gator? And what the heck can they do? So thank you very much for for talking about this today. Thank you for having and thank you everyone else for joining us today. If anyone has any further questions on today's topic, you can post it here, an idea of how they could connect with you.

Jennifer Brissenden  22:05  
All of my contact info is on my website. I'm out in Clackamas County, call me by phone, shoot me an email. I also have a contact option on my website.

Steve Altishin  22:14  
Oh, I love it. I love it. Well, we now have to say Until next time, stay safe, stay happy and be well.

Outro:
This has been Modern Family Matters, a legal podcast focusing on providing real answers and direction for individuals and families. Our podcast is sponsored by Pacific Cascade Legal, serving families in Oregon and Washington. If you are in need of legal counsel or have additional questions about a family law matter important to you, please visit our websites at pacificcascadelegal.com or pacificcascadefamilylaw.com. You can also call our headquarters at (503) 227-0200 to schedule a case evaluation with one of our seasoned attorneys. Modern Family Matters, advocating for your better tomorrow and offering legal solutions important to the modern family.