A Co-Parent’s Guide for Surviving Preschool Years From Separate Households

Join us for our live event as we sit down with Children's Book Author and Parenting Expert, Danielle Lindner, to discuss how co-parents can begin preparing for their first child to go to pre-school from separate households.

If you would like to speak with one of our attorneys, please call our office at (503) 227-0200, or visit our website at https://www.pacificcascadelegal.com.

To learn more about how Danielle can help you, or to order any of her children's books, you can visit her website: https://daniellelindner.com/about-danielle-lindner/

Disclaimer: Nothing in this communication is intended to provide legal advice nor does it constitute a client-attorney relationship, therefore you should not interpret the contents as such.

Transcript

Intro:
Welcome to Modern Family Matters, a podcast devoted to exploring family law topics that matter most to you. Covering a wide range of legal, personal, and family law matters, with expert analysis from skilled attorneys and professional guests, we hope that our podcast provides answers, clarity, and guidance towards a better tomorrow for you and your family. Here's your host, Steve Altishin.

Steve Altishin  0:32  
Hi everyone. I'm Steve Altishin, Director of Client Partnerships here at Pacific Cascade Legal, and today I'm here with educator, parenting coach and author Danielle Lindner, to talk about a co Parent's Guide for surviving the preschool years from separate households. So how you doing today, Danielle? 

Danielle Lindner  0:53  
Good, thanks for having me. 

Steve Altishin  0:55  
Oh thanks for joining. And before we just sort of start in and dive in on the stuff, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of what got you to be here and doing what you're doing?

Danielle Lindner  1:05  
Sure, so I'm a mom of two. They were in preschool once a long, long time ago. They're now in college and grad school, but I started a preschool 14 years ago, wanting to create the environment that I felt was lacking. So I knew a couple of things. I knew that kids really needed more exposure to stem especially girls, so that once they got into middle school, you know, chemistry and biology and things like that wouldn't be scary to them, because they would have done stuff in preschool using those words that made it fun. So I wanted to accomplish that. I also wanted to give kids a good sense of self and build character and make them feel good about themselves and stewardship about things. So I thought that social action was really important, and making sure that the kids in our school always had a social action project that they came up with, that they were passionate about, that they could work on. I mean, it could be anything from, you know, collecting mittens for kids that are homeless to pennies for puppies, you know, whatever they are passionate about. And then the other really big thing was just character education. And that's when I started writing books for kids about the various topics that I saw them struggling with, like being afraid of the dark, being self conscious about getting glasses, not understanding what happens when they go to a doctor, learning how to share, learning how to care about others, things like that, and I wrote a curriculum around that which is now still being used at the school. It's the London day school. And then I realized that I really wanted to move into parent coaching, because I had been doing it for 14 years with hundreds of parents throughout my tenure at the school, and I also felt like I had so much knowledge that I wanted to help impart to preschool parents, not just in my little area, but everywhere. So that's when I wrote the parents Pocket Guide to surviving the preschool years, one challenge at a time. And believe me, it doesn't cover every challenge, but it covers like the big ones. And so that's kind of what brought me here.

Steve Altishin  3:20  
Oh, this is, this is great. This is great stuff to talk about like you. Except even on the more extreme our kids went to preschool a long, long time ago, and they were hardly even in the preschools. I mean, there were, it wasn't the norm necessarily to go to preschool. And so the it was us. It was the parents, I guess, trying to be the teachers of preschool. And one thing that I saw on one of your podcasts was you talked about going back and looking at how the parenting styles have changed over the years, from like when I was doing it to now, and they've evolved, haven't they?

Danielle Lindner  4:00  
Yes, they certainly have. I mean, even when we first started, no one was talking about the peaceful parent, the authoritarian parent, the do whatever you want parent, there is, you know, there's so many different now, little pockets of I'm this kind of parent. I'm not kind of parent, and I really feel that parenting that you can't choose one style over another, and just say this is the kind of parent I'm going to be. Because one kids are different. Every child is different from if you have three children, they could be all vastly different. Or two children, my two kids are total opposites from each other, and every parenting style doesn't work for every child, and it also doesn't work for every situation. So you know, you could say, well, I'm going to be the parent that has these very strict rules, and this is how it's going to go, but let's just say you've just gone through a divorce, and. In different households, and your child's really struggling, and, you know, they need a little leeway. They need to, they need a little, like, less authoritative parenting. They need a little bit, you know, what? If you want to play a few more minutes on your iPad, you know, just to de stress, like, go ahead. Like, do that. And it's not to say that you're always going to do that, because I don't think you know, kids should be depending on technology all the time, but there's times when kids are stressed and things are maybe different for them, like in that situation where you kind of need to let go a little bit and fight your battles, and maybe that's not a battle you need to fight at that moment.

Steve Altishin  5:39  
Yeah, it's interesting. CO parents, divorcing parents, all that, you know, they're like you said, there's a lot of stress that goes on, and you can't believe how much we see how that affects the children. And we were talking about when, as we were timely, talking about doing this. And you used a term that I just absolutely love, and it was from the 80s. Also, it would trickle down teaching. And it's when you think of it that way us as parents trying to teach the kids, and the stuff we do just between ourselves, just does trickle down to them.

Danielle Lindner  6:17  
It's it really does. I mean, I'll have parents come into my office and over the years, and they'll say, My child is so rude and they have no conflict resolution skills, and their parents are going through a terrible divorce, and it's not a good one. And I say, Well, what are they seeing? What are they seeing every day when you meet with your wife or your husband, are they seeing you fight? Are they seeing you screaming at each other? Yes, well, it's trickling down to them, and they want to impress you. They want and so they're going to model your behavior. And same thing with if you're rude to a to a server at a restaurant, you know, how do you react when you're when your food comes out and you wanted a medium well hamburger and it's, you know, rare? Are you polite or are you nasty? You know? And they kids really emulate their parents and their parents behavior, and it does really trickle down them. So I say, you know, if you are going through a divorce or a separation, it's, it's it's hard. Some are very, you know, great and it's easy, and they're fine and wonderful. Most seem a little contentious, but try not to let your child see that part of it. If you're going to be contentious with each other, do it in the law office when they're not around, yeah, but when you're in front of your child, or even if you're just on the phone talking to this person that you're really angry at, who even whoever it might be, don't do that in front of your child, because they pick up on it. They emulate it. They think that's good behavior. They think that's the behavior that you value, and that's what you're going to see from them.

Steve Altishin  8:03  
Isn't this the time of their lies, that their learning abilities are at like maximum? Yeah, I remember years ago reading an article that kids, before they go to school, somehow learning hundreds and hundreds of words a day. And

Danielle Lindner  8:22  
they are, they really are. It's crazy. It's,

Steve Altishin  8:24  
it seems like this is the time, this is really the time.

Danielle Lindner  8:29  
You would be surprised. We we would have kids learning Mandarin after school, just as an extracurricular, and they're three and four year olds singing. And you know, within a few weeks, they're, they're not, you know, working for the UN or anything, or, you know, they're not getting jobs as translators in Mandarin, but they're singing songs in Mandarin. They're saying hello in Mandarin. They're writing Chinese characters in chalk on the little walkways. There's, they are sponges. So now is they're impressionable, and their brains are open and they're divergent thinkers. And now's the time.

Steve Altishin  9:10  
I love it. Okay, the book surviving the preschool years, which I think is great, because it sometimes feels like that, and you talk about equipping kids and parents with tools, I mean, and it's tools are, some are technology, technology, some are, are social. I mean, all these different tools, and they're obviously, then you feel they're ready to take on that. But I think that's kind of cool. So let's talk about a little bit about and I like the idea of equipping kids where, you know, most of these is equipping parents to do this, but, you know, but it's equipping the kids to to succeed, starting in preschool.

Danielle Lindner  9:54  
Yeah, I say that, someone asked me the the other day, what are you doing when they're kids on the playground and they're. Fighting, and they're fighting over a toy or a ball or and I say the faith the best thing to do is to teach to tell them like you're going to be like Bob the Builder. Bob the Builder has a toolbox of actual tools to build a house or a building or whatever he's doing. And I'm going to give you an imaginary toolbox so that when you have conflicts with your friends, you can go to that toolbox and you can fix the problem, and they'll always say, Well, what does that mean? And I'll usually pull out an egg timer, and I'll say, here's what we're going to do, and I'm going to help you the first time, or your teacher is going to help you the first time. You both want to play with the magnet tiles, so I'm going to turn the timer for 2020, seconds, or maybe make it five minutes, for five minutes. And at five minutes, you know, Johnny is going to get the magnet tiles. When that timer beeps, you're going to give the magnet tiles to to Lucy. And then I want you to try it. You try it for five minutes, and then let's make it a little bit longer. Let's do it for 10 minutes and 10 minutes. So they actually have a real, you know, nice set of time to play with something. And then it starts to happen where they say, can we have the egg timer? We need the egg timer, you know, we need to, where's the clock? Because we want to, you know, work on when it gets to the five, Johnny's going to do it. And then when it gets to the 15, Lucy gets it, and they start to be, you know, they start to take ownership over this conflict resolution. And as they get older, you know, we add more and more things. We also would say we have, like, a little mat, and we say, if you have a dispute, go sit on the mat, talk together, think about how you can work it out without asking me. If the teacher first, you try and try and come up with some ideas, and then bring your ideas to me, and let's talk through them. And they love that, you know, oh, we're going to this special mat where we get to, you know, talk about ideas, and the teacher really wants to hear what we have to say. And then the last, can we go to the special Matt, because we're kind of having a problem with sharing, or we're having a disagreement. So they start to really love it, and it gives them a sense of control. I think one of the biggest things that kids lose, and as parents, we don't think about, especially like, if there's a co parenting situation going on that kids really feel a lack of control. Yes, so whatever we can give them control of, we should. I think that's just so helpful for them.

Steve Altishin  12:36  
And you're not just helping them with that thing, you're making better people. I mean, they're, you know, I think you called it. You also want to teach them to be good citizens, and all that's part of that. And, you know, there was, there was a cloud, even though they teach us anymore, you know, civics and social studies, and where you kind of learn some of this stuff, and learning it at this age, I think it's just wonderful. You also, I know, are a big fan in education of STEM Yes, and most people that you talk to think that that's just a thing that you should start thinking about as maybe a senior in high school. I mean, it's like, it's like, that's for the older kids. But it's not necessarily true.

Danielle Lindner  13:23  
No, actually, we had the benefit. Our first child that started at our school when she was 214, years ago, is now in high school. And that group, that cohort, remained very close. They remain friends, almost all of them, which is amazing, and we've been able to kind of follow them and ask the parents, you know, what is their attitude towards the sciences? What's their attitude towards math? And you know, not, it's not everyone's thing. Not everyone loves math. But we have seen high school kids come back to an alumni day at the school and say, I just loved when we learned about polymers. And then when I did it in high school, I was like, that's totally slime. And they're so excited about it, you know, they know they they're like, this is biology we learned about we did organic gardening. And so when we were learning about ecology in high school, I was like, I did that. I know about that. I know about the life cycle of a caterpillar, and they're not afraid of it. It's not so. I mean, when I was young, it was always like something I have to get through. Let me just pass this thing and move on.

Steve Altishin  14:33  
All of this and these sort of you know, things you're talking about in your school may not be in every school, because there are a lot of different preschools, and I know one of the things you you talk about is parents looking for a preschool, and that's especially hard with CO parents who are in different houses. You sometimes even just getting themselves be. Together to do it, but it what sort of thing should parents be looking for in a preschool and CO parents who may require a few different things from from the school?

Danielle Lindner  15:14  
Well, one of the things I've seen over the years, which is been really sad, is that you'll have. You know, when the parents were together, the mom and the dad say, chose the school, and the child is flourishing and doing amazing in the program. And just out of spite, one of the part, one of the exes, will say, Well, I'm not paying for this school anymore, and I don't even like this school, and it's really nothing to do with the school. It's to do with I just want to stick the dagger in to the parent. And I really just think parents need to, I get it, I understand it, but you really have to put your child first. And like I said, with control, their life is exploding now. Their life as they know it is now totally different. But the one constant is their teacher, their classroom, their friends. So if you can get above the I say pettiness of the situation, and put your child first. I think that is so important. And you know what? Don't play checkers, play chess, because 10 years from now, that child is going to really appreciate the parent that supported them and kept them in the space where they needed to be. And 10 years from now, they're they're going to be pretty angry at the parent that pulled them out of the school that they love. So I always say like you gotta play the long game. This isn't just now, this is future. And then I also think when you're just in general, any parent looking for a preschool really think about your child. If your child is totally self motivated and doesn't need any direction or assistance or help with anything which I have yet to find a child like that, including my own. Then some of these programs that are sort of all student led, and do whatever you want. And you know, if you don't want to try this, it's fine. It's fine for maybe a small group of children. You know, they say we teach them life skills, but the reality really is that kids don't know what they like, they don't always know what they want, they don't know what they're good at. And so if you can find a program that is somewhat balanced, where it's student led, where they have choice, and it's teacher led, where they're given the opportunity to try different things, try stem, try art, try reading, try math, then they'll know what they like and they don't like and they never will find out if they never get the opportunity to try. So I think that's really, really important.

Steve Altishin  17:51  
Oh, god yes. It kind of leads into the parents having to be an integral part of this, and essentially, in some ways, not screwing it up. And, you know, taking their problems to the school, you know, Johnny, and Johnny can't do this today, or could you do this for him, because I didn't have time? I mean, what? Your parents kind of consider both in their you know, in their teachers into themselves as they send their kids to preschool. I've seen parents treat their preschool teachers terrible, yes or treat them like you know she or he is the caretaker, yes or the childcare taker, and not really a teacher. And I think that's again, that going way, way back to what we're saying, the old style of what our parenting styles were.

Speaker 2  18:54  
Yeah, there used to be much more respect for the teacher. So much more. 

Steve Altishin  19:01  
What should you not do or say to your preschool teacher or do and help them?

Danielle Lindner  19:08  
I think the biggest thing to do is to be open minded. And sometimes kids will lie, shocker. So we say like I will leave 50% of what Johnny says about you at home, if you believe 50% about what he says happens in the classroom. Because kids, especially if they're going through a transition, that's stressful to look for attention, they'll make stuff up. So I think if, right from the get go, you have a good relationship with the teacher, open lines of communication, telling them what's going on in your household, even if it's just two parents that aren't going through a divorce or anything, maybe one dad travels a lot, or maybe there's a new baby in the house. Or really communicate. Be partners with the teacher. Be partners with your school director. Be. A team. Take a team approach to everything for your child, because these teachers are with your children all day long. And at least I know the kids that are in our school, our teachers really think of them as their own children. They really love them, and when they graduate, the tears are not only from the parents, they're from the teachers. They feel a real sense of loss when they're these kids are leaving and moving on. You know, they're happy to see them get wings and fly, but we invest so much in them every single day and really love them. And if a parent is kind, it just makes it helpful for everyone and respectful, and just take that team approach, really.

Steve Altishin  20:45  
If I come into you, because one of the things you are awesome, an educator and an author, you're a parent coach, and if I come into you and I say, I can't handle the thing, What do I do? How do I start to give you to be able to do the right stuff? What kind of things could I kind of start to look at to go, you know, to preparing myself, preparing my child to have a good preschool experience.

Danielle Lindner  21:14  
I always say the first thing is, are you ready for preschool yourself? Because if you're a parent who has has really bad separation anxiety from your child, like I did when my daughter went to college, but it wasn't like I could say, don't go to college. There's time for her to go, and I had to deal with it, but you're going to be grieving your child being home, and every time you send the child off. You're tense and crying and anxious and calling the school every five minutes, which is okay the first week, but if it's like three months down the road and you're still freaking out and worried, and every time you pick the child up, you say, Oh, was it Okay? Was the day okay? You know, then that's gonna really hinder them, because they feed off how you feel. So I always say to make sure you are ready for preschool before you send your child to preschool, but don't wait too long, because they need the social and emotional development. And do a half day then, if you can. But they really need it. There's so many studies that show that kids that went to preschool did so much better academically, socially and emotionally as the years went on. And then I just say, Let's take one problem at a time, one thing at a time. And, you know, often like, we can break things down. And like we said, one thing is, let's, let's look at the battles that you're fighting, and let's choose the ones that we should just put on the side for a while, and let's focus on the ones that we can easily work on first. Like, you know, my child plays with a million toys in the playroom. I come in there, it looks like there's, you know, like a bomb went off. It's like a big mess. Everything's horrible, and I can't take it anymore, and they won't clean up. And, you know, simple little things, I say, All right, well, here's what we're going to do. First, we're going to get bins, and we're going to teach the child to put all of the take one thing out at a time, and if they want the next toy, the bin goes back and the next thing comes out. And they'll say, well, and I'll say, label the bins. And they say, My child can't read. That doesn't work. I said, You label with pictures, not with words. Take a picture of the Legos, tape it on the bin. Take a picture of the crayons, tape it on the bin. That's what we do in school. And our classrooms are not a disaster, and they're like, oh my gosh, I never thought of that. And sometimes it's just a like as a parenting coach, it's just an outward perspective, you know, not being in it, being able to just give these little tips and tricks and giving the parents the toolbox that really helps them. When we do, we check one thing off at a time.

Steve Altishin  23:53  
I love that. I love that. Wow, we have. We have blown through almost 30 minutes. And before we go, I really do want to give you a chance to talk about how if someone wants to find one of your books or sign up with you and in coaching, or talk more about your school, what are good ways they can get a hold of you.

Danielle Lindner  24:16  
Sure, so they can go right to my website. It's Danielle lindner.com, it's d a n, i e L, L, E L, I n, d N, E R. There's 2n in there.com. And everything's there at the website. And if they want to learn more about the London day school, if they're in New Jersey and they want to check out our school, they can go to londondayschool.com.

Steve Altishin  24:41  
I like it. Okay, this is a stupid question. Why London? You're in New Jersey? 

Danielle Lindner  24:48  
Everyone asks you that, and everyone's in a while, we do get a call from overseas asking how close we are to Manchester, and I say, we're too far away for you. So as a child, I live. In London for a little while, and I love the feeling of having that sort of intercontinental, multicultural feeling as a kid. And I really wanted parents to know that we're not a daycare. We're really a preschool. We're I say we're only a daycare in that we care for your child all day, and that's where it ends. We're really a school that's going to teach them about the world, like you said, being good citizens of the world, being stewards of the world, learning a foreign language, learning a sign language, learning about STEM just having this a multicultural approach to learning. And I just felt like ABC building blocks, fun time preschool wasn't gonna really say that I love it, and I'm hoping there is not a preschool out there with that name, wonderful, if it is, but just wasn't right for us, that's cool.

Steve Altishin  25:57  
Well, thank you for being here today, Danielle, oh, it was great, you know, the the idea of breaking down all of this stuff, which is a lot of stuff, into kind of, you know, teachable, actionable parts, just makes it easier for everyone to understand. So thank you for doing that.

Danielle Lindner  26:18  
Thank you.

Steve Altishin  26:20  
And thank you everyone else for reaching out today. If anybody has any more questions, obviously you've gotten the information to contact Danielle yourself, and until next time, stay safe, stay happy and have a great day.

Outro:
This has been Modern Family Matters, a legal podcast focusing on providing real answers and direction for individuals and families. Our podcast is sponsored by Pacific Cascade Legal, serving families in Oregon and Washington. If you are in need of legal counsel or have additional questions about a family law matter important to you, please visit our websites at pacificcascadelegal.com or pacificcascadefamilylaw.com. You can also call our headquarters at (503) 227-0200 to schedule a case evaluation with one of our seasoned attorneys. Modern Family Matters, advocating for your better tomorrow and offering legal solutions important to the modern family.