Strategies for Educating Kids on Financial Literacy in Our Digital Age

We sit down with Founder and Creative Director of Ketshop, Mari Collins Harris, to discuss the importance of teaching children financial literacy in this digital age, and how her app, Ketshop, can be used as a tool for financial education and responsible spending. In this episode, Mari discusses the following:

• Breaking the taboo about talking about money
• Building financially and personally responsible kids
• Encouraging your child to reach their goals
• Releasing control and handing over responsibility
• Empowering kids to choose their own path
• Fostering charitable habits in kids

If you would like to speak with one of our attorneys, please call our office at (503) 227-0200, or visit our website at https://www.pacificcascadelegal.com.

To learn more about Ketshop or to get in touch with Mari, you can visit her website at: https://ketshop.com/

Disclaimer: Nothing in this communication is intended to provide legal advice nor does it constitute a client-attorney relationship, therefore you should not interpret the contents as such.

Transcript

Intro:
Welcome to Modern Family Matters, a podcast devoted to exploring family law topics that matter most to you. Covering a wide range of legal, personal, and family law matters, with expert analysis from skilled attorneys and professional guests, we hope that our podcast provides answers, clarity, and guidance towards a better tomorrow for you and your family. Here's your host, Steve Altishin.

Steve Altishin  0:32 
Hi, everyone. I'm Steve Altishin, Director of Client Partnerships here at Pacific Cascade Legal. And today we have the founder and creative director of ketchup, Marie Collins Harris, to talk about the importance of teaching kids financial literacy. So Mark, before we talk in Golan, can you tell us just a little bit about yourself and how you got to be doing this kind of thing you're doing?

Speaker 2  0:59 
Yeah, hi, I'm Mari Collins Harris. I am a mother of three, I have a background in information design, and graphic design. And I'm living up in Tahoe with my lovely family. So ketchup is a family business that my husband and I started together, basically, to address some of the issues we were experiencing in our own lives, raising young kids. So it was kind of an answer to the product, overwhelm, and the begging and the nagging that we experienced as our kids grow up in kind of a consumer world. So we were trying to figure out a better way to teach kids how to be smart consumers and not just want everything and expect everything to come to them.

Steve Altishin  1:44 
I love that. I love that my kids are in their 30s. And I'm still working on this. This is a perfect topic. So when we were talking before, about like finding some topics to talk about, I remember you talking about the importance of taking your kid talking to your kids about money, which, you know, there's sort of traditionally sort of a no, no, you know, among parents, oh, God, I'm talking to my kids about money. So how do parents break that taboo? And what kind of things do they talk about? Yeah,

Speaker 2  2:20 
well, I mean, obviously, it depends on the age of your child, because you'll speak to a five year old much differently than you'd speak to a 12 year old. But I think if you're starting early, that's really best because then it doesn't feel as taboo. And I think things are changing nowadays, too. Because in past generations, there is a lot of like, we don't talk about money, we don't talk about money problems. We don't talk about how much we make. But the world is opening up. And this is important information. And there's no valuable reason to hide that from our kids besides like, Oh, we don't want them to tell the neighbors, but you know, the neighbors can see what car you're driving, they can see what house you're living in. Like, they kind of know that what level you're on anyway. So talking to kids about money is it's difficult, but it's it's easy to start in small steps. It can just be like, when you go to a grocery store, walking down the aisles with them and saying, Oh, look, you know, this canned tomatoes, cost $4 This one costs 350. Why do you think that is which one should we buy? And it you know, it's not always going to be the cheap one is better, it might be like, Oh, we like organic. So we're going to pay a little bit more to have the higher quality food. And so just getting them to understand that like price and quality and like looking at how much you're getting for your money, it's a bigger can just buy a little bit. Those kinds of things can help them to start thinking about, like, why things are priced the way they are. So that's a really good tip to start. There's also like going to garage sales or stores and empowering them with a small amount of money to start like spending it how they choose, maybe they have $5. And if they want to spend $5 all at once, that's fine. If they want to save up for something else. Even better.

Steve Altishin  4:13 
I like that if we're not talking about teaching them how interest rates work, the role of of, you know, well, it's funny that stuff. So that's kind of nice. Yeah,

Speaker 2  4:25 
you want to start at a level that's appropriate for them. You know, if you're at an older kid level, then you definitely have to get more advanced. But I have young kids and I'm kind of focused on teaching younger generation or younger kids how to approach these problems, because I do think there are more resources once you're in the teenage years.

Steve Altishin  4:47 
I like you also talked about as well as talking to kids, obviously setting an example and how important it is to set a good example. Can you talk a little bit about why that sort of One thing and kind of things you can do.

Speaker 2  5:01 
Yeah, well, like the previous example I talked about, one of the things that I think is super important is letting your kids in on why you're making the decisions you're making. So if you are spending a lot of money to get a new phone, you don't just hide that and say, like, Oh, this is Mama's phone, don't don't look at it, it's, well, I need a new phone that takes really good pictures, because you guys are only going to be kids once and I want to have the best pictures, I need a phone that gets great connectivity, here's my options, here's how much I'm spending on it. And really just talking them through the buying process. And why you are making the choice that you're making. It's not just ooh, the new fancy thing I wanted, it's, you have your reasons for making the choices you're making. Share that with your child. And similarly, they love this, when you make a mistake, share that too. If your child is witnessing you experiencing buyer's remorse, they're gonna remember that like emotional moment that you're having way more than if you talk and talk and talk about lessons and charts and planning. It's like, they see how you're feeling and they understand feelings a lot better than, you know, just more structured lessons.

Steve Altishin  6:15 
Right? But it makes sense. I mean, a lot of kids early on earlier are on either social media or, or, you know, web or things like that, where they and they have a thing mean, they actually have a thing. And so they it's, it's not like that is something way out there. You know, somebody in the distant future, it's like going on right now. And you talk also sometimes that you need to start building financial and responsible kids sort of take on personal responsibility. Again, what are some of the great ways to Rican teach that? And you know, without being the typical sort of you do this, you do that? Yeah, do we give allowances anymore, or that really,

Speaker 2  7:09 
you know, I am still trying to figure that out on catch up, we do offer the option for parents to send money to their kids, like, weekly, monthly, bi monthly. But I think it really depends on families, some families find it really works for them. And some don't like in my family are super stingy about allowance, we do give allowance, but we pay very handsomely for chores completed. And so the way I view it is like having the allowance coming in gives them kind of the expectation of like a paycheck, someday they will be expecting a paycheck and budgeting around a recurring income. We give our kids like $3, which is basically nothing but they know they get $3 on Monday. So if they want to buy a cookie on Tuesday, they can or they can save up to their goals, which is what I'm hoping they do, which they have been, they've been getting better and better, the longer we've been working together on it. But yeah, I think teaching financial responsibility in children, it's really challenging at first, but it gets easier and easier. Because it can be something where you can be fairly hands off, like you can talk with kids about finances. But if as long as you give them a safe sandbox to play in, they're gonna figure it out themselves. If they have a budget, and they have things that they want. It's very natural for humans to think like, Oh, I really want this, I'm gonna get it now. And then later be like, Oh, but now I have nothing and I can't get the other thing. So when your child experiences that just being there to be like, oh, yeah, yeah, you want to buy that Lego set today? Ah, but you bought your cookie yesterday, and now you don't have enough to buy that Lego set. Okay, well, maybe next week, you know, or, you know, you can go mow the lawn, and you could buy it today. So, giving kids like options and helping them think through that cause and effect is a really great way to teach them about like the finite nature of money. Yeah,

Steve Altishin  9:16 
that's a great I love that term, the finite nature of money, giving them the sandbox kind of a thing. And, and that leads me sort of, of what sort of things useful ways to do this. And this leads into ketchup. So how do you work ketchup into this sort of how parents can get their kids to spend correct you know, wisely, save wisely, make good decisions?

Speaker 2  9:49 
So ketchup is an app where parents and kids can work together, parents can send their kids virtual money, and kids can find child safe items on the app that they would like to buy and save up for those things or buy them themselves. And then the parent always gets an email confirmation. So the kid can't just check out like on Amazon or target or wherever, and just be able to buy whatever they want, the parent always gets the last say. So in that way, it's a good way for parents and kids to work together. So if a child wants to buy something that's inappropriate for your home, say you live in an apartment, and they want to buy a swimming pool, it's like, that's not going to work. But if you're in this relationship together, where you're shopping together, each on your own time, but like being able to have that conversation, it really helps kids start thinking about how to spend their money. And I said earlier, kids love seeing your reaction to mistakes. It's harder for parents to see their kids making mistakes. But it's such an important moment for them. Because when a child buys something, and they get it, and they're so excited to open it up, and it breaks immediately. It's like disappointment. And it's very easy as a parent to want to swoop in and save the day and be like, this is garbage. We're going to return it, we'll get your money back. But I tried to step back and say, like, oh, man, what a bummer. You know, I feel you, that stinks. But you bought a RC car for $4. That doesn't really add up all the other RC cars were 20 or $30. And you got the cheapest one. And when it came, it was small and it broke. So what are we learning from this. And so just kind of having those conversations along with them. And helping them understand the cause and effect and letting them feel that pain of buyer's remorse, or the pride of like successfully achieving your goals like I saved up and I bought a bike. This is so awesome. Now at Mobile, now I can go places my life is open. Those kinds of experiences at a young age can really set a direction for how kids are going to be thinking about money later on down the line.

Steve Altishin  12:07 
If you're I know, we had this a couple times where our kids were saving for something, and trying and saving and you know, like halfway through the goal, they start to lag. And it's like, they just don't have trouble seeing the end, you know, as a parent, what? What can we do about that? Are they is it just a matter of continuing to talk with them about the situation and about, you know, the fact that some things take longer than others? Yeah,

Speaker 2  12:39 
I mean, I think it depends on the goal too, because it's okay to abandon goals. Like maybe, maybe you wanted a Lego set, and you get halfway there, and you're like, oh, I don't want this is a lot of work for something that I don't really need. So it's okay, it's okay, if you don't follow every single goal that you set for yourself. But if it is something bigger, where it's like, I need to, you know, achieve good grades to get a scholarship where it's like, you can't lag on that, that is something you need to do, then is a parent, our job is to incentivize them. And you know, our kids are all special little snowflakes who have different needs different drives. And so you know, you know your kid best, you know, how to get them motivated to do things, hopefully, with our family, if our kids are struggling to meet a goal, we try and do like a matching contribution where it's like, okay, if you can raise $10, we'll put in $10. So by you raising $10, you get $20. For those more important things where the whole family's kind of got skin in the game, we're definitely helping or if it is a bigger goal, my son bought a bike this summer, and we subsidized about 75% of the cost. So it was like he's not going to be able to buy like this extremely expensive bike on an eight year olds budget, but he can reach about a quarter of it. And then by him putting skin in the game, and him having to sacrifice in order to buy that bike. He puts his bike away. He doesn't leave it out in the rain. He locks it up when he goes to school. It's like, it's amazing, because he takes better care of the things that he has bought himself, because he's sacrificed for them. And I think that's, that's almost just as important. It's like once you reach your goal, like do you appreciate it once you're there, or does it just kind of like what's on to the next thing so being able to appreciate what we have achieved is super important and can help you move on to the next goal of yours.

Steve Altishin  14:53 
I like that sort of long term reward thing. I didn't have how it is, I think teaches more when you when you work for it a little bit longer than the immediate gratification because the immediate gratification, it is a is generally not a great financial. And so I think parents what? themselves I mean, just in their everyday lives. Does it matter what the kids see us doing? And how we're, you know, saying one thing and doing another? I mean, do we need to be aware of that.

Speaker 2  15:39 
I mean, I'm no psychologist, but I have to assume that it is extremely important that we're showing by example, rather than just words, because our kids aren't dummies, they're going to figure it out that we say Save, and then we're broke at the end of the month, every week, every month, you know, you have to set a good example. And you know, if you aren't the best with money, then that's a journey you can go on together. And I don't think you have to pretend that you know what you're doing. When you're talking with your kids. Always, I think it's our instinct as parents to try and, you know, save face and be a voice of authority. But if we don't know something, it's okay to say I don't know, like, let's find out together, maybe we can both get better at this. And, but being vulnerable in that way we help our children understand that, like, it's okay. If they make mistakes, too. It's okay. If they don't know things, they don't have to always be, you know, the big man in charge, they can also be a lifelong learner, like their parents.

Steve Altishin  16:43 
Yeah, I and that kind of leads to, we've talked a lot that relates, at least to me at the beginning it games toys, you know, kind of kid things. And you talked about a bike because you go a little older. Eventually, I think our goal is to kind of empower them to be able to make all these decisions themselves and and what sort of what sort of your ways can we make sure that what we're doing not only just is budgeting and keeping them in there, but you know, kind of down the road, empowering them to choose whatever path they choose? I mean, is this something even that, that as they get older, your college education can figure into or, or other things like what they want to do as adults? I

Speaker 2  17:40 
think in terms of catch up, I think that's a little bit outside of our range. But as parents, I definitely think so I think by helping your kid embrace their strengths, and have the opportunity to explore different paths is your way of like giving your kid those options. If you are taking your kid, let's say you take them to a marine biology lab for an open field day or something, and you explore around there and maybe your kid comes out like change. Oh my gosh, I had no idea how amazing the oceans are. I want to be a marine biologist. Okay, well, that's cool. You know, we just did that one afternoon. But, you know, maybe we'll help you get a microscope, maybe we will take another trip to the ocean soon. Just leaning into their interests and supporting them in that is a great way for parents to help their kids achieve their goals and letting them know like, it's okay to explore, it's okay to lose interest in things. But if you're passionate about something, you got to look at the end goal and think of like a smart way to get there. And that means like something that's actionable, something that's measurable, something that's like timely, there's like there's a whole acronym for smart, but I can't remember right now. But if you can create a goal that that your kid really wants to get to, and help them along the way, then they're much more likely to do that with your help than if they were on their own. I

Steve Altishin  19:09 
love that also feels like you're starting with basics, but but also getting as you get into things like will pay for some of them as you do so that you're getting more complex financial, real life situations. One of the things I see just on people in general is one of the things that they really don't understand and don't do handle. Well, a lot of times is credit cards. And can this be helpful in because eventually the kid may want to get a credit card even, you know, when they're not, you know, out of the house. Yeah, I mean, they're with you. They're in because it can happen and it seems like this can help even get them into the adult kind of buying universe. Yeah,

Speaker 2  19:57 
there are a lot of Have prepaid debit cards for older kids, usually it's like, I would say probably 12 or 13, once they're kind of getting a little more independent out of the house, catch up is marketing towards like five to 11 or 12 year olds where they're still very much under their parents influence. But it is a great tool for credit card readiness, simply because it limits you where you cannot buy more than you have. But you are still using virtual funds, you're you can shop online, you can buy products approved by your parents, but you do have limits to it. And I think one of the illusions of credit cards is that money is not finite, it's this infinite resource, that will be a problem for future may not me right now, right here, catch up makes it so that you can only buy what you can afford. And if you can't afford it, you can save up for it, you can make it a goal, you can track your progress towards it, but you can't have it yet. And I think that if you start setting that mindset early, you can't have it yet, but you can work towards it. That is, that's like the number one key to success in life. If you can't have the thing you want, but you can work towards it then do like, that's how you get what you want in this world.

Steve Altishin  21:21 
And that kind of led to another thing you had talked about in terms of this isn't just a, you know, set this up and do it now. And this is why it is but you have talked about continuing to have like open, honest conversations about money. And that shouldn't stop at any point. It sounds like.

Speaker 2  21:43 
Yeah, I totally agree. I think there's a lot of confusion around money. And it's very taboo to talk about outside the family and inside. And honestly, I don't really understand it, I think it's a source of embarrassment or pride, no matter where you stand. But there's a lot of things that are that you're proud of and embarrassed of. But talking about things makes it better. And if you are trying to pass along a legacy to your kids, and you want them to know how to manage it, you got to be talking to them early on, so that they understand not only what your family is working with, but what they personally need to be doing and like what responsibilities they can expect as an adult, even though they're young, you're just gonna start with little bits along the way. So you don't just drop a ton of bricks on them when they're 18. So this

Steve Altishin  22:37 
is a progressive, this is it starts simple and progresses as it goes along through catch up. Yeah,

Speaker 2  22:46 
yeah, I would say, I would like to think of us as a first step in financial literacy. Like maybe you've done some coins and like counting and stuff, but we are the first step into actually managing your resources. And then as you get older, maybe you start doing those prepaid credit cards, then real credit cards, then, you know, all the other stuff that comes with adulthood. And, you know, catch up is meant to be phased out, because it wouldn't work for an older kid, it wouldn't work for an adult to constantly be managed by another person. But for those young kids who can't manage themselves, yet, we're there to provide a safety net to make sure that they can't make catastrophic mistakes that affect their whole family. I remember hearing stories about some kid who bought $7,000 worth of Spongebob, Squarepants popsicles, that all showed up at once frozen, because he was on his mom's Amazon and like, that's horrible. That's, that's terrible. I would hate for that to happen to my family and or your family. So we're out there to prevent that sort of mistake.

Steve Altishin  23:58 
I love that. I love that. And then that's the goal, like you said, is that eventually, they go there on their own, but they're ready to be on the road. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  24:08 
we're the training wheels.

Steve Altishin  24:10 
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Wow. We blew through 30 minutes. I really enjoyed this. This was this was fascinating. You know, and it's it's stuff that every parent, you know, deals with. So, Mario, thank you so much for being here today.

Speaker 2  24:25 
Yeah, thanks for having me on, Steve. Oh,

Steve Altishin  24:28 
I love it. I love it. And before we do late, would you like to let anyone who might want to get a hold of you let them know how they can do that.

Speaker 2  24:37 
Yeah, you can check us out at https://ketshop.com/ We are also on Instagram at cat shop dot app comm check us out there and you can download the app. Try it out. And we'd love to hear feedback from any and all. I love it.

Steve Altishin  24:56  
I love it. Well, thank you again. And you know think everyone for joining us today. If anyone has further questions on today's topic, you can get a hold of Marty. Or if you can't, or you want, you can post it here and we can get you connected with Mark. And so until next time, stay safe, stay happy and be well.

Outro:
This has been Modern Family Matters, a legal podcast focusing on providing real answers and direction for individuals and families. Our podcast is sponsored by Pacific Cascade Legal, serving families in Oregon and Washington. If you are in need of legal counsel or have additional questions about a family law matter important to you, please visit our websites at pacificcascadelegal.com or pacificcascadefamilylaw.com. You can also call our headquarters at (503) 227-0200 to schedule a case evaluation with one of our seasoned attorneys. Modern Family Matters, advocating for your better tomorrow and offering legal solutions important to the modern family.