The Benefits of Using a Co-Parenting App During and After a Divorce

We sit down with Family Law Attorney, Michael Trotter, to discuss the various co-parenting apps available on the market, as well as the uses and benefits of using these apps to help facilitate amicable communication between parents post-divorce.

If you would like to speak with one of our attorneys, please call our office at (503) 227-0200, or visit our website at https://www.pacificcascadelegal.com.

Disclaimer: Nothing in this communication is intended to provide legal advice nor does it constitute a client-attorney relationship, therefore you should not interpret the contents as such.

Transcript

Intro:
Welcome to Modern Family Matters, a podcast devoted to exploring family law topics that matter most to you. Covering a wide range of legal, personal, and family law matters, with expert analysis from skilled attorneys and professional guests, we hope that our podcast provides answers, clarity, and guidance towards a better tomorrow for you and your family. Here's your host, Steve Altishin.


Steve Altishin  0:28  
Hi, everyone, I'm Steve Altishin, Director of Client Partnerships are Pacific Cascade Legal. And today, we're here with our firm attorney, Michael Trotter, to talk about the benefits of using a good co parenting app. Hey, Michael, how you doing today?

Michael Trotter  0:50  
Great. Thanks, Steve. Appreciate that.

Steve Altishin  0:52  
Oh, I am so happy you're here. And when I talked to you about this, you, you were like, Yeah, I love these things. Because I love these things. Now, when we talk to people, sometimes, especially just sort of out in the community about that, you know, I get a lot of questions all sort of in the, well, you know, what's wrong with just using my phone? Or my texts? or emails or doing it with social media? You know, what's wrong with that? So let's kind of talk about that first. You know why that's really not maybe the best way to go?

Michael Trotter  1:26  
Yes. So, as you mentioned, Steve, yeah, one of the difficulties, at least that I find it in my life, just even managing the relationships that I have all types of relationships that I have is, is that there, it's it can be overwhelming. And oftentimes, I am so overwhelmed with text messages that I don't even look at them. Right. And so can you imagine having not only your text messages, but you have your various social media apps. So trying to keep track of all of those different platforms is very challenging, especially if you're a person who's overwhelmed by even keeping up with text messages, for example. So a co parenting app, will put it into one platform that makes it less overwhelming for the individual. 

Steve Altishin  2:09  
Oh yeah. I mean, texts, I must have, I don't know, hundreds of texts on my phone, and to try to scroll up for three minutes to find a thing is virtually impossible these days. And a lot of people just don't save them. They don't save text. They don't save emails. And so that can be problematic if you're going back. Well, I did to say that. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. So let's then go why an app? I mean, you know, why an app? And then maybe specifically, why an app about co parenting?

Michael Trotter  2:46  
Yeah. So to address the first question is why an app? Well, as we discussed is that texting and other various social media platforms that we have, there's a variety of them. And they're useful in many contexts, right. And so they have certain apps have certain benefits that other apps don't have, for example, we use apps for listening to music. I have all kinds of apps, my grocery apps, right? You know, Safeway, Fred Meijer, you know, those are just a few. But there's many of those. So those apps have all types of apps. And so they're they're really designed to help make our lives easier. And so specifically, that's what's good about a co parenting app is it's designed to make your co parenting experience easier. So so as I talked about at the beginning here is relationships are can be difficult, right? And communication is a cornerstone to any relationship. And so a co parenting app helps with communication reduces tension between the parties, because you're communicating in an app that is one place, and it helps keep the parties accountable. There's many benefits to the co parenting app. And we can get into that a little bit. But specifically, with co parenting apps, you know, the benefits would be things like, you know, shared calendars, being able to sync those calendars, being able to pay certain expenses, those are just abuse. So that's why we recommend a co parenting app.

Steve Altishin  4:18  
And one of the things I like about that is you referred to it earlier is it takes some of the emotional side. Ah, you know, it's like, if you're talking to somebody, and they say something, you know, like it spiraled downhill really quickly. I do like that.

Michael Trotter  4:44  
I use, you know, a lot of that. So for the co parenting apps, they're particularly helpful in high conflict scenarios, right. They can also be good even if you're non-high conflict, but typically, I like to really suggest them where you have two parties who have a difficult time making decisions together, right? The court even, when you look at it, the court even encourages throughout the proceedings, the parties to communicate because that's in the best interest of the child in the long run. So the co parenting app is recommended by courts to in many instances, the co parenting app is designed to do that, too, it helps is to encourage the parties to communicate. And it really it does a number of things, but it also hosts the parties accountable. Right. So you can use the communication in the activity in the coparenting app to help you with your proceeding as well.

Steve Altishin  5:41  
So one of the issues, like we talked about was, you know, having texts here, and then emails there, and this is to co parenting apps have the ability to sort of capture all of those things so that, you know, you have an app and calendar, but But hold on, where's my text? I said, this is one way we're going to do it.

Michael Trotter  6:06  
Yeah, yeah. So it has the ability to help you do a number of things, like, for example, helps you stay organized, right. And so one of the things that I mentioned is earlier, as is that it really helps with shared calendars, it helps you note certain things like for example, doctor's appointments, or sports practices, or pickup and drop off times, for example. And then it also allows you track parenting time. So for example, you're scheduled to pick up the child on this particular date, it'll, it'll show that you did and it's a completed task, right. So it shows a task that was handled, and it helps the party stay accountable to one another, as I mentioned, also helps with not only helping to stay organized, but you can also organize your documents. So any of the custody documents from your legal proceedings can be sort of stored there. So the parties can review that whenever there's a question about what should be happening happening according to that the parenting plan, it helps you store that information. So you're able to keep track of important documents, like files and image sharing. And the other kind of benefit to it is, is that it's a central database to store information. So for example, if if you were to rely on your own hardware, to keep track of things, and you've lost that data, all of a sudden, then all of that's gone. But in this case of using a co parenting app, it's a central server, right to the coparenting. app company. And so it helps you with keeping your documents from getting lost due to some type of interruption. 

Steve Altishin  7:39  
Yeah, that's a huge thing. I mean, it's so easy in this day and age to have your computer go down, your computer lose a connection. The files are lost. I that's what I really liked. So on the calendar part, is it? Is it two separate calendars and each party better put the stuff in? Or is it like a shared calendar? What that once it's in? It's it's there updates for both parties at the same time?

Michael Trotter  8:13  
Yeah, it's my understanding that it's a shared calendar. And that's something that would be updated, able to see those updates in real time together on the same shared calendar. Yeah, it also since the beauty of it too, is it also sends alerts to the other party, when there's something added to the calendar or something removed from the calendar. And that's the other feature, I would talk about Steven that also keeps track of information that was deleted, or information was never responded to, for example. So oftentimes, as I mentioned earlier, where you have situations of high conflict between the parties, oftentimes there'll be some communication. But yet the other party won't respond to that communication, for whatever reason, and the other party would have never reached out. But the first message if there was wasn't an intent, right. So how that's helpful when I'm gonna put that into context is is, you know, let's say you get farther along in your proceedings, and you're really trying to make something happen in the party has never responded to that. Obviously, you're able to go back and show the course that you made attempts to do that, but the other party never responded. So you really acted in good faith. And it's questionable as to what how the other party acted. And that can all be documented and tracked in the co parenting app.

Steve Altishin  9:28  
I love that accountability. Like you said, I never saw that. You can't say that.

Michael Trotter  9:35  
Yeah, unless you have your eyes closed. Yes. Yeah. So I mean, that's to be honest with you. It's there's less accountability for me just using the multiple platforms, right versus the co parenting app, because it's different in that sense. And that really, I don't have ball I shouldn't be accountable to myself to respond to texts and other social media responses. I don't really have to in the co parenting app, right? The goal is to get the parties communicating in a way that's in the in the child's best interests. So really you should be held accountable by because it's in the child's best interest. Exactly.

Steve Altishin  10:13  
And, and I know that, you know, in the old days, the co parenting apps when they first came out, basically more geared almost exclusively to parenting time, the kinds of issues we've talked about when you're going to do transfers, when when do you need to change a transfer? You know, all that kind of stuff. But I know that they've expanded and I think now, don't some of them help? on issues like well, expenses? There may be shared expenses.

Michael Trotter  10:46  
Yeah, absolutely. So that's the other. You know, other than just staying organized, one of the things that the app helps you do, it also helps you track those shared expenses. So an example of that would be any child's for example, you can even do child support payments there between the parties, there could be other expenses relating to other child support related activities, right? One of them could be example would be daycare, right? So there's a number of laundry list of expenses that can be tracked and paid. And you can also receive money, obviously, that would mean you receive money in the same way or same fashion. So it's very helpful that all of that can be managed in the one platform. So you don't just have, you're not only dealing with the issue of parenting time, but you have all these other benefits, such as the shared expenses, documents, storage, record, keeping those types of things. 

Steve Altishin  11:38  
I love that. And the expenses, once again, I'm sure you know, you see it all the time that, that following the divorce, you know, there's support payments, and they're fairly straightforward. Yes, yes. And, but then there's this whole other expense that's one of the parties is either ordered to do, or it's left in sort of a limbo situation, like, you know, somebody wants to do a, an event or go to a vacation or do or join a team or something. And it's not necessarily down who those are for. So you can actually it seems like use this, even when you don't agree. And that's the kind of other part with this, that we've been talking but haven't really talked is like, this doesn't mean only things you agree with go into this thing. If you say, Hey, I had to pay $142 for this. And I think you know, we should split that doesn't mean you have to agree to it. But at least now, it's, it's in a spot. Correct? Where they can say, Yeah, you never asked for that.

Michael Trotter  12:54  
Yeah, and I think like, like you're alluding to is, is that it's not just a space for agreement. But it's also a space to hash out areas where there is possible disagreement. Right. And, and again, the tool is designed to bring about and encourage effective communication. So even the disagreement, I would say is, is beneficial, because you're trying to get to the ideas that through the disagreement, you're trying to get to agreement. And so you can keep track of those communications between the parties. In show, for example, one party could show that they're actually trying to earn both parties are trying to show that they're working on this particular issue. They worked on it for this long, and perhaps they never reached agreement on. So now you're back in court trying to reach agreement on it. But you'd have a history, excuse me have a record of the parties trying to reach that agreement, and that information can be used and very helpful in a subsequent proceeding. 

Steve Altishin  13:46  
Oh yeah, I can I can see that. The obviously one of the costs, one of the costs, one of the issues that people come up with is what do they cost and, and way back when they were free, but they're not necessarily free? Or maybe they are now but I imagine with all of the things they do, people can have a range of how much they want to have at work.

Michael Trotter  14:12  
Hmm. Yeah, so there are some apps that are free. And I've seen some apps that are as costly as or affordable as 24 $25 per month. So, you know, you know, story about lawyers not doing math. I'm not going to attempt to do math here. But 25 times 12 gives your annual your annual figure. And if you take that figure and you compare that with that sums up to be compare that to the hourly rate of an attorney, right. And there's various rates of attorneys and that's just the hourly rate. And so if you take the hourly rate, plus any court proceedings, you're you're looking at, you know, an expensive invoice from a law firm. So the So when you look at the cost of, of going back to court, relative to the cost of having this app, it's very cost effective in terms of having all of your information in one spot trying to reach agreement on issues in one spot you're trying because the issue, it works, I've seen it work very effectively, especially like I said, in high conflict cases where the parties are trying to text and reach agreement on certain issues. But when they start using the app, they effectively use less of my time, which is really good in many instances, because for a number of reasons, I can go into a number of reasons why it's better. But But, but but when you when you're comparing the two costs of the app itself, and then going back to court, it is very cost effective. Plan. So again, I would encourage using the co parenting apps, and again, those those rates typically go from free to 25 to $25 a month. The key to using the apps though, is you want to do your research and try to find apps that fit your needs. So not one, no, not only one app was, you know, there's no one size fits all. But there are a number of apps that can be used, our family wizard is one that's really popular in there several others like close app, other apps would be like at close. And then to houses is another one in talking parents, those are some of the apps other apps side from our family wizard. Those apps, many of the apps like our family wizard, I can only speak to that, because that's the one I use most is those are even even though those may be recommended by your attorney, oftentimes, you can build that into the parenting plan and have the court order it. So that's another thing that I see in the court systems here is that oftentimes without me even asking for it, it has been ordered, in some instances. So it's highly recommended by the courts. And I think it's very beneficial. 

Steve Altishin  16:58  
I love that idea of getting it put into your parenting plan or even ordered, because, you know, it's it's like, sometimes the courts can order how support payment is made, you know, how you have to go through that. And this, this, this comes to the next question I was going to ask, which is, what if one person doesn't want to use it? And is there any reason for the other person to use it? Even Even if one person says, No, I'm not gonna use it? 

Michael Trotter  17:34  
Yeah, that's a good question. And I sometimes struggle with that myself and my practice, and how do you encourage the other party to use it, what I found is, is that there's a couple of ways you can do it one reason why a party may not want to use it would be cost, right. And so oftentimes, you can encourage your client to maybe pick up the cost for the other party, and that that would help overcome that, that objection to cost. And the person doesn't want to use it, obviously, you can't force them to, but you could potentially through the order we just talked about. And there are various reasons why others may not want to use it, perhaps they don't want to be held accountable. And again, that is a personal choice. But I and that's a choice that an individual can make. But in a speaking to directly to the question of whether or not you can if one party can use it and the other party not use it. I'm not sure it would be it's unclear to me whether or not that would be effective. But I have just expressed some ways that you can get the other party to agree to use it. Again, those reasons would be a good way she would overcome that would be through paying for the app or getting the court's order it. 

Steve Altishin  18:40  
Yeah, yeah. I imagine the calendar part would be, let's say, Yeah, I'm a forgetful person. And in you know, having a calendar app, and nothing else would be very helpful. Absolutely.

Michael Trotter  18:54  
And it's just unclear to me yet. I'm not sure how, yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, absolutely. Or that's true. See, that's, that's a great point actually is so yes, one party using the app, and all of its features still could be helpful in that regard. I see what you're saying. And and so for example, if you're a person like myself, where I'm overwhelmed with all the different apps, then perhaps even if I just had the co parenting app on my end say there was another party involved that would keep a lot of my information all in one spot like you said and alluded to the calendar in and of itself, right documents, custody documents could be there. Keeping track of expenses could still be there. I think again, you raise a great point is it can still be used even for just one party. Yep.

Steve Altishin  19:40  
The I kind of like it even and I should ask even if it's possible, or do you think it might be worthwhile, getting it up before the divorce? Cuz you know, you got hearings, you got mediation, you have, you have other communications that may be going on directly, especially if they someone doesn't have an attorney. So is this something that could actually be helpful even before the divorce is final? 

Michael Trotter  20:08  
Yes, because I would say, absolutely one of the instances I would think would be, even if you look, extrapolate a little bit, and if you look at unmarried partners, right, where there's no divorce, ending, that's one example where it could be helpful. Obviously, there's no divorce if you're unmarried, right. So it'd be helpful for that even the individuals who are unmarried parents, but before the divorce is finalized, assuming you have married individuals, it's very helpful in me, and most of the cases that I have, where it's, it's implemented, it's early in the proceedings, and the earlier, the better. And again, those high conflict situations, you want to get that implemented as soon as possible because divorces aren't typically short. In my experience, in practice, they can range some of them in the best case scenario done in three months, some go couple years, some are one year, but the sooner, I always say, the sooner you can get the parties agreeing, the better off, that's the kind of practice I'd like to leave. Because that is, for a number of reasons, the most effective one is if you have children, it's in the best interest of the child, even if it's not children. And it's going to be in the best interest of both parties from a financial standpoint, because a lot of the expenses in litigation and Family Matters is really, for lack of a better word, it's kind of this emotional, back and forth bickering for lack of a better word about certain and that you can't remove the emotion from these because relationships naturally are emotional. So the sooner you can, agreeable to certain things, it's going to be and the other thing I think, that people forget sometimes in family law matters is is is that it's not never going to be a win, win, meaning you're never going to win everything all the time. So you're gonna have to give up some things. You know, and that's, that's, you know, that's the part where East once you start realizing that I think things start going a little bit better for the parties is that where you can become agreeable on giving up certain things, then use the can to resolve your case.

Steve Altishin  22:19  
As you keep talking about this, I, you know, my brain keeps going to this, and I don't know that it's ever been suggested, this would work. Without kids, I mean, it's called a parenting app. But it does a lot of other stuff. And like you said, when you're when you're with some other high conflict, it's almost as if it's the parent child thing going on anyway, between and having this as a, as a modifier would be important to it, just to help keep those tensions out and keep the other person if you're worried, in line, because then that gets to my last kind of question, which is, you know, inevitably, someone's going to try to bully on this thing. You know, there's gonna be the narcissistic parent that's going to, you know, send something every 14 seconds, and try to somehow use it against the other person. 

Michael Trotter  23:21  
Yeah, yep. And those every, every 14 seconds or 14 minutes, or those are all, that's all something that, for example, the co parenting Apple keep track and help the parties remain accountable otherwise, because what happens is, is the otherwise the attorneys times gets tied up trying to resolve those communications every 14 minutes, which is then billable, right, so why not go ahead and set yourself up on an accountable sis in an accountable system. Without even with Nigeria, as you mentioned, even without children, having those communications in the app would be helpful, because you're cutting back on some more of the emotional stuff, because you're going to think twice when you're communicating in a secure platform that's documented about. And also the I forgot to mention this, this another beautiful feature of our family wizard and perhaps other apps habit, as well as it's called tone meter. And so let's say for example, when I send a communication to the other party, I may start out with, it's kind of the rule about don't ever, when when you're in the heat of the moment, don't send an email, because it's generally going to be not the one you really want it to send in the end because the other party to maybe agree to something, right. So the tone meter is designed to help you realize, wait a minute, maybe the tone of my message isn't isn't appropriate. Maybe I should back off of that word or use this word. So the tone meter helps monitor the tone of the message that you're sending to the other party so that you're sending appropriate and effective communications to the other party. 

Steve Altishin  24:55  
I love that, no eff word. 

Michael Trotter  24:56  
Yeah that's a good one, no swear words.

Steve Altishin  25:02  
Yeah, you start off. Okay. You lousy blankety blank, it probably it will say, Well, maybe you can find something else.

Michael Trotter  25:11  
Something else. Yes.

Steve Altishin  25:12  
I think that's wonderful. I think that tone meter thing. I mean, it's a little bit of a therapist. 

Michael Trotter  25:18  
Yes, that's true. Yeah. Absolutely.

Steve Altishin  25:22  
I love that. Well, we have absolutely ran through our 30 minutes. They go way, way too fast. Yes. So first of all, thank you for doing this is really wonderful. And if I could ask one more sort of like, parting question, if you had, you know, someone who's saying to you, Well, why do I really need it? And you said, Well, the one thing you really need it for is, what would you say? Communication?

Michael Trotter  25:55  
Yeah, communication. And that's because it goes back to the key to any effective relationship is communication in the app is designed to help the parties communicate effectively in a secure environment that has a therapist, as you mentioned, right, who's kind of, kind of in the middle of all of this, and looking out for what's in the best interests of not only the parties, but also the child. So I would say communication, that's the biggest piece. 

Steve Altishin  26:26  
Yeah, it's not only a therapist, it's a judge. They're gathering evidence.

Michael Trotter  26:31  
Yes. Yeah, that's right. 

Steve Altishin  26:32  
There's lots of good things as well, again, thank you, sir, for joining. This has been really cool. And I really liked the way you could make this topic. You didn't make it a tech topic. Otherwise, I would have been dead. I'm just lucky my screen doesn't go away during this. That's a win for me.

Michael Trotter  26:53  
I understand that. Hence, all the text messages that I have not read. Yeah, yeah.

Steve Altishin  27:01  
Oh, I love it. We'll do something like this again. This is great. And everyone else. Thank you for joining us. If anyone has any questions for today, further questions, on today's topic, post it here and we can get you connected with an attorney. And until next time, stay safe, stay happy and be well.

Outro:
This has been Modern Family Matters, a legal podcast focusing on providing real answers and direction for individuals and families. Our podcast is sponsored by Pacific Cascade Legal, serving families in Oregon and Washington. If you are in need of legal counsel or have additional questions about a family law matter important to you, please visit our websites at pacificcascadelegal.com or pacificcascadefamilylaw.com. You can also call our headquarters at (503) 227-0200 to schedule a case evaluation with one of our seasoned attorneys. Modern Family Matters, advocating for your better tomorrow and offering legal solutions important to the modern family.