How to Create a Blueprint for Aging: Defining Goals for Post-Retirement

We sit down with Aging Advisor, Allison O’Shea of Openly Aging, to discuss why it’s important to plan ahead for post-retirement, and how to avoid last minute decision making about managing major life events. In this interview, Allison discusses the following:

•    Why older adults need to plan ahead.
•    Putting a support plan into place before you need help.
•    The advisor triangle of legal advisor, financial advisor and ageing advisor
•    How and when to put an aging plan in place.
•    Why every decision in early retirement needs to look at what can happen in post-retirement.
•    Learn how the adult children fit into a good support system.
•    Understanding resources that are available.
•    The role of a geriatric care manager.
•    ...and much more!

If you would like to speak with one of our family law attorneys, please call our office at (503) 227-0200, or visit our website at https://www.pacificcascadelegal.com.

If you're interested in getting in touch with Allison, you can do so by visiting her website: https://openlyaging.com/

Disclaimer: Nothing in this communication is intended to provide legal advice nor does it constitute a client-attorney relationship, therefore you should not interpret the contents as such.

Transcript

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Intro:
Welcome to Modern Family Matters, a podcast devoted to exploring family law topics that matter most to you. Covering a wide range of legal, personal, and family law matters, with expert analysis from skilled attorneys and professional guests, we hope that our podcast provides answers, clarity, and guidance towards a better tomorrow for you and your family. Here's your host, Steve Altishin.

Steve Altishin  0:28  
Hi everyone, I'm Steve Altishin, Director of Client Partnerships here at Pacific Cascade Legal, and today we have aging advisor, Allison O'Shea, to discuss why it's important to plan ahead for post retirement, and how to avoid last minute decision making about major life events. Allison, before we start in on this topic, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into this field?

Allison O'Shea  0:55  
Sure. Well, it's wonderful to be here. Thank you so much for having me. So I have spent the last 18 years in senior living communities. I started in activities doing programming for memory care, and then made my way into being an executive director. And as my career grew, the buildings got bigger and bigger. But I was starting to feel I was missing a part of, you know, working with seniors that I fell in love with originally, which was really guiding families and helping. You know, I experienced a lot of times in senior living families coming in crisis. So Mom was fine, something happened, and all of a sudden we have to make these really big decisions that she's not happy about. And we're doing it in an emotional way. So that's where the idea came from and where I started openly aging in January. And basically, I, like you said, I'm an aging advisor, which helps families put a plan in place. What makes me a little different is I try to get in with the early retirement age to really, for them to take control of their aging, and really help put that blueprint into place so their adult children aren't the ones that are having to come in and, you know, save the day. That they have an idea of what they want their future to look like.

Steve Altishin  1:04  
I love that. You know, I was looking at a bunch of stuff before. And what really struck me about you, as opposed to sometimes other people who talk about this kind of stuff is that, you know, they're all about dying. You're all about living. And I really thought that was an interesting contrast. And so I'm excited about this today. So let's start with the why. Why is it important for older folks to plan ahead, even maybe as they're just retiring, or before or after?

Allison O'Shea  2:54  
Well, and I think you kind of hit the nail on the head, I've seen so many aging people in my career really go into this chapter of their life, very resentful, very negative. When, why? You know, we can't stop our aging, we're all going to age. And when you get to a point where, you know. you are in your aging years, if you could look back on your life with gratitude, contentment, and you know, some sort of happiness. I know that's hard in those later years to, you know, look at it that way. But that's really why I think this is important. Because we can do things to make sure that we can be as content as possible during this chapter of our life.

Steve Altishin  3:42  
It's like you said earlier saying about, you know, when you hit families in crisis, that's when they come to you, but that's really not the best time to start going.

Allison O'Shea  3:52  
And for a long time in my career, I just thought of that as status quo, that's normal. And then as I've moved through, you know, morphing openly aging into really figuring out where's the market of people that I really want to talk to, and there's so much information out there about family caregivers, there's a lot of information out there about you know, as you age, different services that are out there, but there's really not a large amount of information to really hit early retirement say, Okay, if we do this now, all those years down the road could be a lot smoother. And so that's really how I, you know, where Openly Aging has really hit its mark.

Steve Altishin  4:37  
I like I like that. So kind of a, you know, the obvious question, but I love those. How do we start planning? Like you said, we're at that kind of age where you're talking about it. I mean, you know, what do we start doing? I mean, I mean, I don't even know what questions to ask.

Allison O'Shea  4:58  
So I do have kind of a blueprint, I call it an aging plan. And it really starts with five questions that you can start asking yourself when you're really starting to think about retirement. And the goal of these questions is to really hone in on that control piece so you can have as much control. So the first of those questions you should ask yourself as early as possible is you need to identify who your aging support system is going to be. Is it one of your adult children? Which is most commonly of course, but where do they live? Are they local to you? Are they out of state? Do you plan on moving to where they are as life moves along? And maybe you need more support? Or that is an absolute? No, you are never leaving your house? Well, does your house need to be renovated? Do you need to call in or start forming a relationship with what is called a Geriatric Care Manager, you know, somebody who can act as a proxy for your long distance support group? So really just looking at your current situation, and who are those people that are you trust, and that you want to help you make decisions as maybe decisions get harder and harder to make? That's really where to start.

Steve Altishin  6:12  
Can that person change over time?

Allison O'Shea  6:14  
It can change, of course, because you know, as we move through life, maybe we identified our adult daughter, but her life maybe took an unexpected turn, we can absolutely adjust who that aging person is. Or even if you have your adult children local, maybe you still want to have a Geriatric Care Manager as a third party, because the Geriatric Care Manager is just somebody who you hire to basically help you with doctor's appointments, they can help coordinate care. So they can be a third party if your immediate, you know, support system is just, you're still not sure.

Steve Altishin  6:53  
Right. And they're available.

Allison O'Shea  6:55  
Yeah, and they have certification. Yep. So and you know, also what I do as an aging advisor, because I help kind of with the big picture, I'll look at families and say, Okay, here's your current situation, yeah, we probably need a Geriatric Care Manager come in. Well then I can help with the vetting process, because there are a lot of geriatric care managers out there who, you know, maybe want to help their mom age and so they went, but they don't have a ton of experience in aging, maybe just a very personal experience, whereas others, it's more of like a career path. They've done it their whole professional lives. So it's really identifying what type of care manager is also the best for your situation.

Steve Altishin  7:38  
You said your support person, you're kind of identifying your support person, it sounds like what you're talking about that that's kind of the day to day issues. 

Allison O'Shea  7:49  
Yeah. Somebody who, of course, if there's an emergency, that's the first person you want called, somebody you trust with talking about your finances with. Somebody that you trust if you were to become incapacitated and unable to make decisions that you trust that their decisions are in line with the conversations you have had previously. So it is definitely somebody who you you really, truly trust.

Steve Altishin  8:16  
Should we kind of talk to them before we say, 'Hey this is you'?

Allison O'Shea  8:22  
I've got questions to ask yourself, and we'll get to that one.

Steve Altishin  8:26  
So what is the next question?

Allison O'Shea  8:28  
So the next question is, you have to have an understanding of your finances, of course. And most people, that's really where I'm finding, you know, they're going to their financial advisors, when they're looking at retirement to see what their options are. But then they stop. And then they don't really think about the emotional, spiritual piece of aging. And really, knowing your finances is important for two reasons. And there is no right answer. And I always try to make sure people know that because a lot of people run from that if they're in fear that their finances aren't that great. But if your finances are in a great place, that's wonderful. But even so, there's places called continuing care, retirement communities, those are those very large buy in communities, they have wait lists of five to 10 years. So even if that's a goal of yours, or you know, you identify that as maybe a future, you got to get on those weightless. And same thing for the opposite if money is of concern, or you're not sure there's so many community resources out there, volunteer caregivers of America, I mean, I can name a whole bunch even the local programs, but those also have pretty long wait lists. So if there is a concern of money in your future, then you know, maybe getting yourself on a waitlist will be really important. And the worst case scenario is or I should say best case, you may get the call that your name is pulled but you're not ready to receive the services or you're not ready to move in. You stay at the top of the list and you can just you know, continue on with what's working but you have put Get an insurance policy in place for either end of it.

Steve Altishin  10:03  
So making that plan isn't like, Oh, God, that means I'm going to do it right away.

Allison O'Shea  10:11  
No, no, no. So these questions that I'm having a lot of my clients asked, we're looking at 10 to 15 years, I hope some of these we never have to deal with. But we can't pretend the chance of it not happening are high, they're very low that you're not going to need some support.

Steve Altishin  10:29  
So that's a good, that sounds like a great thing to ask yourself. You said more.

Allison O'Shea  10:36  
All right, number three. Number three, is you have to have a basic knowledge of the resources. And a lot of times people don't start looking at options until they're in a crisis or until they need something. And then it's so overwhelming. Even working in senior living for as long as I did, I would say maybe once or twice a day, we would get a phone call from a family needing services. And one of their first questions is, is it covered by insurance? So you need to know and it's not. So you need to know, what does insurance cover? What does it not cover? What is the difference between a CCRC that I mentioned before? Or a rental? Why would you get therapy in your home? What does that even mean? So there's just so many different resources out there. So what I tell a lot of people is if you look at your senior centers in your area, or any large senior living community in your area, they all host so many different informational events, you can go it's an hour of your time, get some free drink, get some free good food, and listen to some information, you know, and once you get on their list, you can pick the topics that are most important to you or that you want to know about. But it is important to have a general idea of resources.

Steve Altishin  11:55  
Oh I imagine, because there's just, like you said there, these resources are about really a very group of things that are not necessarily anything you've ever come in contact with before at least not very much. 

Allison O'Shea  12:11  
And one part of the aging plan that I help people navigate is okay, if you want to stay home, that's great. But here are the areas that you need to look at that may potentially come up as needs while you stay home. Do you need to renovate? How well? Are you cooking? You know, do you need food delivered? If you were to need care? Do you want them in your home? What kind? Do you want to pay a company? Or do you want to hire somebody privately. So there's so many different options within each option, that really having an understanding of if I make this choice, here are the other choices that may come down the road, if I make this choice, here are the choices that are associated with that. So it just gives you you know, just a wider range of understanding

Steve Altishin  12:57  
What kind of strikes me here is again, that you are making you are making yourself smarter, and there's got to be an empowering effect just about doing that.

Allison O'Shea  13:17  
So I after starting this, and really diving into this, you know, the idea of ageism, has really come up, you know, throughout my blogging and throughout, you know, my what I'm trying to do to get information out, and ageism occurs because we lose, we become dependent, we become quote unquote, weak, we become unable to manage ourselves, you know, and therefore we're looking at as lower I mean, that's kind of the definition of ages, and we're not seeing as productive. Well, what if we put this plan in place, and then it gave our loved ones these blueprint or this idea. So even if we become incapacitated, we have something that we have said, If this happens, I want this the amount of control you keep, but also what a blessing to give your loved ones who you've chosen to be the ones to help you in this aging journey, where they don't have to question you know, they don't have to, they know kind of your goals. You've talked about your goals. It just really allows for such peace of mind. And it goes back to being able to enjoy this chapter of your life.

Steve Altishin  14:22  
Exactly. Don't rely in on other people because you haven't kind of got yourself prepared in any sort of ism kind of got kind of as falls into that trap of you're allowing that to happen.

Allison O'Shea  14:39  
Mm hmm. Yeah. So ageism is partly our fault. Because we were avoiding even talking about it and as generation, you know, the current generation in their 80s and 90s. I think they're still considered what they call the silent generation. We don't really talk we don't you know, we just kind of go about, well, the retirement the early retirement group right now has also been a little traumatized by their parents not making or not telling them some of their wishes. So they've had to come in and save their parents, while dealing with anger, resentment and attitudes, probably the whole way through or, you know, I, I've had a lot of clients, adult children who will say, Well, my mom made me promise that I wouldn't put her in a community. Well, that's unfair. That is just really unfair. And so what I also help families with is it's okay to have boundaries, and it's okay to say, alright, Mom, I can do this. But when this starts happening, I need you to understand I have to call and resources. And so it's just everybody getting the whole family getting on the same page.

Steve Altishin  15:44  
I love that. So more questions.

Allison O'Shea  15:48  
Number four, it kind of goes back to what you're saying, you have to communicate with that aging support system, they have to know number one, and they have to agree, you know, that's a big one. But what I also like I said just a few minutes ago, I also am a big believer in the when you take when you say yes to being somebody's aging support system, there also should be some guidelines. You know, because a lot of times now and the world we live in, people are working longer. They're, they're having children longer. So a lot of times the aging children I'm deal or the adult children I help, they're at the height of their career, and they probably have kids in college or maybe just graduated or starting families. So we you also I also help them be realistic about what is their current situation? And what are their boundaries, because that is important. I've seen so many adult children running to mom's house four times a day to make sure she's taking medicine. Well, it's burning them out isn't really fair. And is that really the best situation that you know, there's so many other options, we can really come in and do a whole assessment and make sure that everybody, because this is the way I look at this is this is for the family. This is for the family to enjoy this chapter in life together as content as possible.

Steve Altishin  17:11  
I love that sort of idea of boundaries. One of the things I was thinking of as you were talking back in the financial part was I did a little bit of advising businesses on on their employee benefits. And the AI the concept of Medicare and Social Security strikes fear into everybody. Yeah, I think I got calls from lawyers who, you know, write briefs and go to court and they're calling me up and say, I can't read what Medicare's and when am I supposed to take my Social Security money? I mean, so those things aren't necessarily for the kid.

Allison O'Shea  17:56  
No, no. And there's so many people that that's all they do for a living is help people handle the Medicare and all that when do you cash out. So there's a resource out there to help so because truly, too, by putting this plan in place, the ultimate goal is that it will save you money, it will save you time, because you're not making decisions that aren't the right decision. You've really thought about it so far ahead of time that the decision is the right decision. And it's good for everybody. And in that that's, you know, money that will save money.

Steve Altishin  18:35  
Yeah, not a one size fits all. No kind of a thing.

Allison O'Shea  18:39  
Yep. And we don't know how we're going to age. And I would hope that every time I help a family put an aging plan together, they never have to use it. And, you know, everyone just peacefully passes away when it's their time. But that is unrealistic. But and that's also reason people don't talk about it is because maybe they saw their grandmother who never needed any help. And so the risks, you know, they why did we talk about it? We don't need it. It's, you know, just planning. 

Steve Altishin  19:09  
Yeah, yeah. That's exactly what I like about it. I mean, yeah, you know, I'm the kind of person who wouldn't we go on a trip I, I take, okay, we're gonna take this subway from here to here. So people think, Oh, you don't have to do that. But then at the time, when the crisis comes, we have a plan if you're not in good shape. 

Allison O'Shea  19:35  
Right. So yeah. Fifth question. The last question is, are you listening to your support system? Because that is the biggest, you know, when I first started this, I was on a podcast and the host was very sweet. And she said, Well, I'm sure you're doing this because so many older people aren't heard or they're not respected. And of course, my ultimate goal with my company Eat. And what I do for a living is that as people age, they're treated with respect, dignity, and they have what they want. But I have seen so many people so angry and bitter, like I said earlier, and they're not listening to their adult daughter who is so overwhelmed, killing herself to accommodate everything her mother wants, when her mom's being a little unrealistic, you know, and be, and that's, there needs to be some direct conversation about what's realistic, and what's not realistic, and everybody agreeing to it. And so I always tell people to that aging plan is a moving document, you know, we, we could have all the plans in the world, well, all of a sudden, we didn't really think about this, or, you know, adult daughter has maybe a child that gets sick, and she needs take care of. So the whole plan kind of needs to be adjusted. So listening to our support system is really important, because that's, that's kind of the team approach. 

Steve Altishin  20:59  
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, the starting earlier than later fits into that to me, because it seems like, you know, I'm not afraid to say I'm retirement age. And, but I feel like I'm still, you know, at a high level of my mental capabilities. And so, yeah, why not start using those now to plan ahead? I mean, that seems like that's part of that, too, is that, you know, I can discuss stuff with my kids understand, they can understand, we're still rational, but you know, if something was a great time to get those plans in place,

Allison O'Shea  21:40  
Absolutely. Absolutely. And so that's really, you know, I, even my parents, they've recently retired, moved to the coast of North Carolina, and we've had conversations, but and they've been great. You know, they I know exactly what their income is, I know exactly what their plans are, I know where their goals are, and we're going to do what we can, but there's no children around there. So they know, you know, it may come to a point where, you know, I have to say, Hey, this is getting a little hard. Can you help me out here? And you know, and they would be more than happy to do it? Because we've been having these conversations, it's not a surprise. 

Steve Altishin  22:19  
And you both now have the information, which that's the other I think, huge thing, which kinda led to a question. So but hope I don't interfere with your next question.

No, I'm done. Those are my five so you're good.

With all this information, who's supposed to know? How do they keep that information? Because some of that stuff you can forget, if you don't know, say.

Allison O'Shea  22:44  
Oh yeah, so my, I would hope one day, this aging plan would be, you know, could be considered part of legal documents, you know, we'll get there one day. But for now, I would, it's really I do a lot of families zoom. So once we do the aging plan with the parents, then we'll do a family meeting. And we really break it down and discuss it. And then, you know, have good old fashioned notebook or a good old fashioned document. But people aren't going to necessarily reference a document, they're going to reference a conversation. And so me facilitating a family conversation on goals and desires. And then of course, for a lot of my clients, I'm kind of there for any questions that come up. Or maybe there's starting to be concerned with the aging plan, then I can help guide the family and how to navigate next steps with the aging plan or what we need to adjust. But truly, the whole point is conversations, conversations about desires and goals and hearing concerns from your support system about any of your desires and goals. You know, everyone wants to stay in their house. Everybody wants to stay in their house. But what happens when socially, you're so isolated, that your only social outlet is your adult daughter, who's working, raising children, and now she feels obligated to constantly keep you busy? That's not very fair. So Bibi staying in the home at that point isn't in the best interest of the aging person because they're not getting part of what makes us human, the social component.

Steve Altishin  24:23  
Yeah, yeah. I love--

Allison O'Shea  24:26  
That doesn't mean it's senior living. It could be a condo, it could be you know, there's so many people think like, oh, just gonna shove us into senior living. That is not there's so many options.

Steve Altishin  24:38  
The the amount of older people I know. And their living situations is just all over the board. Absolutely. Absolutely. You I love it when you talked about, you know, your financial and then you know, maybe hopefully having a legal document. I read something we're anywhere Talk about the aging triangle. And I just love that one. It's like, it's, it's the way you can work and the financial and the legal advisors all come or do that. Just I love that, that, that what that aging triangle.

Allison O'Shea  25:16  
Yeah, if you go on my LinkedIn, you can see it, which is Alison O'Shea, or openly aging. But that was really the vessel, I created that. And it was the best illustration I could think of to really get people to understand what I'm trying to do we have the legal point with the wills, we have the financial, but there's a whole lot of other planning for aging, that those two components, they reach out to me, I have a lot of relationships with financial planners, I have a lot of relationships with legal, you know, legal advisors, because they're kind of relying on me to say, Okay, well, my client wants this financially had or this is what their finances are, this is what they want. What What else should I be thinking of, you know, and then I can come in. So yeah, it's just kind of finishing that triangle off, to have all, you know, components taken care of as you age.

Steve Altishin  26:04  
I love that I liked because sometimes things is a pejorative, but I don't, I think of someone like you, as the quintessential jack of all trades. You know, you're, there's 15 different things, you can help with that, that are all kind of amorphous with everything else. I just think that's great.

Allison O'Shea  26:28  
And that's what I do for my clients. That's what makes me different than a Geriatric Care Manager is I will point them to resources. And then they can keep me hired on to facilitate or they can say, all right, good. I needed that. All right, let me go take care of that. And then they call me back and say, Okay, we've done that. Now, what's our next thing? You know, so it's just putting a step by step plan for them that they can use me as much as they want. Or they can just, I can just guide them to the resources.

Steve Altishin  26:54  
Yeah, yeah. Oh, God, we're almost done. I hate this. I'm 30 minutes goes fast. But it goes faster. When you're older, I should ask. I don't know that answer. We can we got a plan? And I think I heard you talk about this on something it was like, I think they may ask you well, how do we define a successful aging plan? Would your answer be happiness?

Allison O'Shea  27:24  
I think just I think gratefulness is actually the word I use most because no one's looking forward to the last chapter of their life. No one's like, oh, I can't wait to be 85 I need someone to help me. But when you've lived a life full of, you know, positives, negatives, and you just really, you should have a feeling of contentment, and gratitude. And that's my ultimate goal is that I want people to not be stressed.

Steve Altishin  27:50  
And it's not. I mean, the way you approach this, it's not just about the last chapter, you're like in chapter seven, when you got a lot of moving to do left.

Allison O'Shea  28:04  
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what will make it so much a feeling of contentment and gratefulness because you have started a plan sooner than you needed it. So you're able to enjoy all the phases, you know, of your later years.

Steve Altishin  28:21  
Yeah, you've got you've got a kind of hooked up with understanding their legal needs, their financial needs, their housing needs, their daily needs, their medical, I mean, just everything,

Allison O'Shea  28:33  
and relationships and their family dynamic and relationships, which are a huge component too.

Steve Altishin  28:38  
Yeah, I love it. Well, shoot, we are out. So, Alice, I really want to thank you for sitting down and talking about this. And talking about subjects that are either uncomfortable or complex, which this is both really, you make an understandable and, you know, something that you look forward to doing. And I think that's pretty cool. And again, I know you did, but just one more time, once you give people how they can get a hold of you.

Allison O'Shea  29:07  
Yeah, so my website is openly aging.com. And of course, you can contact me through that. My Facebook, openly aging, I do a lot of content on all the all the things I talked about just kind of putting out resources. And then of course, LinkedIn and either Alison O'Shea or openly aging, those are my most active, the best way to get in touch.

Steve Altishin  29:26  
Well, I love it. Well, thank you for being here today.

Allison O'Shea  29:29  
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.

Steve Altishin  29:31  
And everyone else, thank you for joining us. If anyone has any further questions on today's topic, you can post it here we can get you connected with Allison you can obviously get a hold of her directly as well. So until next time, stay safe, stay happy and be well.

Outro:
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